Official "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" Instant Reactions Comments!

[brian]

Discuss!

[haunted_apples]

what an episode. no offense brian, but i don't even think you've begun to analyze this one.

a thought i had:

Ben Murdered Locke:
it turns out Ben murdered Locke. My initial reaction was "wow, i hate this guy", which is how I think the Lost writers want you to feel. but...when Ben left the room, he said something along the lines of "I'm going to miss you John, I really am".

Here's what I think...

I think that Ben showed up to kill John Locke before John could kill himself. I don't think he intentionally showed up with the assumption that he could gain information about Eloise or Jin still being alive. He had NO way of knowing that Locke would reveal that information. So we have to assume he was ONLY there to kill John himself.

But why?

I think it's clear that Ben has been 'working' with Eloise almost right after he got off the island. This would explain why he had the information at the funeral parlor when he explained to Jack why they all had to go back. Including Locke.

But why did he kill John?

I think he was aware of the importance of re-creating the original flight, and that dead Locke would take the place of dead Christian Shephard, who did not die on his own, but was murdered by one of our familiar cast members on the original flight.

Think about it. Why would Ben find the need to kill Locke himself? Locke was (LITERALLY) on the verge of killing himself. I don't buy that he only stopped Locke to get information out of him. If that was the case, why not just get the information, leave, and let Locke continue killing himself? There was a REASON he had to murder John. and I think he needed to recreate the original flight, to increase his own chances of going back to the island. He needed to take the place of whoever murdered Christian Shephard.

It's sort of a stretch, but I think it could explain why Ben had to do that, and would setup an amazing twist, that Ben is actually a GOOD GUY, and that one of the original Oceanic passengers murdered Christian Shephard for some unknown reason.

Thoughts?

[haunted_apples]

next week's preview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j1czgzf_yc

[Heidi]

Hi, first time poster.  Why did  you say Ben tricked Widmore off the island?  I missed something?  I thought Widmore said "I was exiled or banned".   And would that really be just Ben or would that be a whole tribunal like when Juliet was "on trial"?  Why do I stay up late and try to figure this out?  Thanks for your posts, I love reading them!

[Jason]

Christian was not murdered by anyone.  He died of alcohol poisoning.

[xyourmomx]

Alcohol Poisoning or severe heart attack, one led to the other I believe.

No one killed him.

The only thought I have, has to do with religion...  Suicide sends you to hell, but being murdered isn't a sin.

If Locke had killed himself, he might not have been able to go back in the islands eyes...

However, like Jesus, who was murdered, only to return...

And Ben really was pushing the Doubting Thomas bit last week.

So my guess is Ben had to kill Locke before he could kill himself, in order for Locke to 'return'

[renee]

I was thinking that Ben stopped Locke from killing himself so it wouldn't be "a sacrifice" and he thought it would stop Locke from returning...(?)
Ben doesn't want Locke to go back.

[splotches]

Hey Brian:

Episode Reactions- The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham
(edited from a chat with DocArzt'sBlog)

Nice proper new character intro scene (Caesar in the Hydra on Alcatraz Island)
Ilena is next and then they add Reiko Aylesworth soon.

So Locke has gone "Back To The Future", Jedi Style?

Crashed 316 Lying in the mud - I got the crash I was missing last week.
Other Other Locke Others?

Maybe D&C meant "the episode order makes more sense" because  316 wreckage scene comes after the 316 flash scene (since the episodes 316/TLADOJB aired in reverse order)

Locke is the new Indiana Jones. Finally some tunisia, without Crystal Skulls
"Your parents had a sense of humor naming you".
Give him some McCutcheon, Widmore, he's got more work to do.
At least Locke was not run over by a car.

Locke's travelogue scenes played out like an episode of Six Degrees! (his off Island meet-ups)

It's been way too long, but Walt got a great scene again.
With enough money and resources... Widmore gets Locke a driver to take him to anyone!
Abbadon works with Widmore. Tricked by Ben into island exile.

Widmore being called on his "Boatload of C4" and changing the subject was priceless.

"The camera is at the EXIT." so matter of fact, I chuckled
So the island is fixed opposite Tunisia because the hatch is still operational and holding the island?

Where is Sun? We know about the ring, so I guess that is her proxy.

Easily called Ben as the gunman. Now show him being served that beatdown!
Did he just provoke a beating to make himself authentically late to flight 316 as Hurley's proxy?

Can't wait till we know why Hurley came to the plane. A visit from Ghost Charlie? Sayid? (not Ben!)

Abbadon, Caesar & Sayid should get a spinoff action show and Kill The Economist.

[renee]

Just noticed something weird...
While looking at the screencaps of tonight's episode there are pictures of the Hydra Station.
The cover of the 1954 Life Magazine was interesting, "Color Pictures of the Hydrogen Test"  (Jughead?)(Widmore's War?)
Also, as Ceasar flips through the mag there is a picture of "The Creature From the Black Lagoon"
I know it sounds like a stretch, but I've posted before that the actress that the Creature is carrying
is one of the Others. It's Amelia from the book club way back when. (I still think she's supposed to
be Amelia Earhart)

here is the link: http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/

[pehechaan]

Although I was ready to buy into Widmore's story, I agree that the clean-cut sides of Widmore = good, Ben = bad that they presented us with tonight aren't going to last as we learn more about what really happened.  But seriously, I can't imagine what "greater good" Ben could be working towards, what an evil mofo (Interesting note: I could be wrong about this, but I think Widmore was wearing white, and I know Ben was wearing black (cause he's an evil mofo) in the episode's bookends, their visits to John. more white/black good/evil imagery, which was ominously introduced by Locke and his beloved backgammon pieces allllll the way back in the beginning of season 1).

In such a rushed episode where every single scene was crucial to the plot, the inclusion of Walt felt SO forced.  I felt like the awkward conversation (seriously, "I just wanted to know if you were okay?"  that's it???) was just a formality to get all of us to stop theorizing exactly when they were going to bring Walt back and reveal why he was so special.  Considering his roles in seasons 1 and 2, this short scene of pubertized walt was a big letdown, for me at least.  I was surprised to see you were pleased w/ it.


Season 5's been great so far, but it's a completely different show.  While I'm really grateful for the lack of filler episodes, it's obvious that the pace has been put in super fast-forward due to the six-season limit.  I hope now we can move on from Locke's arrival to more exciting shit.  Like the "shocking twist" in the preview that was ridiculously easy to predict with the scenes they showed us, IMO.

long-time reader, first-time poster, fellow cincinnatian...brian, this is the best lost blog I've ever found, I like the way you think.

[Libby]

"Ben is outa control!" she says in her best Dana-Carvey-imitating-Regis-Philbin voice.

So Ben moved the island to save it from Widmore's people, and then needed to get back.  It appeared to me that he only needed Locke so he could find out the name of the woman who could help him get back and when he got that, he killed him.  Do we know if Ben knew who she was before this?  I don't buy that he killed him so it wouldn't be a suicide because as we saw with Michael, the island wouldn't let that happen if it didn't want it to.  The island doesn't seem to step in when it's murder.  Ben couldn't bring Locke back alive because The Others are all googly-eyed for Locke so Ben would never be able to regain power.

I think Ben's reason for going along with getting the O6 back to the island was merely because that was his only way back himself.  Eloise wouldn't have cooperated with him without the O6 and it may have been when he first went to see her that he found out that he needed the O6.

All of this leaves me with one glaring question:  Why didn't he just have Locke turn the wheel?  Locke would be off the island and it would be moved away from Widmore.  Problem solved.

[Jason]

I think the answer to your question Libby is this.

In a power struggle you do not regain power over your enemy by sending them to a different part of the world. They can always come back or be recruited again by Alpert and his people.

Ben needed to either Kill Locke so he could show the others that Locke wasn't so special and they would refocus on Ben or he needed to discredit Locke.  Ben waited until he knew what Locke needed to do and who he needed to talk to and then decided that he could take the glory of saving the Island and the world from ripping themselves apart by bringing the 06 back himself.  To seal the deal all he had to do was provide Locke's body as proof he was dead. Remember he tried to kill Locke before and the island wouldn't let him, making Ben look selfish and pitiful.

[Keebah]

When Ben murdered Locke, the first thing I thought of was Sawyer murdering Locke’s father.  Why?  The death of the real Tom Sawyer (Locke’s dad) was a right of passage for Locke to enter into the ranks of the Others, specifically as their leader.  Perhaps Ben felt that if he killed Locke and took his body back to the island, he could show Richard his worth and take over as the leader of the Others once again.  One of those “you keep what you kill” mentalities.  This might also explain why Ben decided to turn the wheel and leave the island: he knew he couldn’t kill Locke on the island.  However, if he could somehow leave the island with a guarantee that Locke would follow, he could kill him off island.  Ben knew Locke was supposed to turn the wheel, so he simply went through the turnstile first (breaking it in the process) and waited for Locke to join him back home where he could safely kill him.  And let's not forget that this isn't the first time Ben has tried to kill Locke.  He shot him on the island, but the island didn't seem to let Locke die.

Of course, this doesn’t explain away all of the doubting Thomas stuff from 316…unless Ben was thinking that by murdering Locke, Ben himself would be “resurrected” as the leader of the Others.

Since we all seem to believe that Eloise Hakwing was on the island in the 50’s with Richard Alpert and Charles Whidmore, and Ben and Charles know each other from the time Ben joined the Others with The Purge, I think it’s conceivable that Eloise was on the island during part of Ben’s reign.  Therefore, I think it’s safe to say Ben was telling the truth when he told Locke that he knew Eloise.  The question is, what did he really know about the recreation of Oceanic 815?

Lastly, I’m really confused about the flash during flight 316.  Caesar told Locke that the big, curly-haired guy (Hugo) disappeared from the flight.  Presumably, so too did Jack and Kate since the three of them ended up together on the main island.  We know that Lupidis and Sun landed on Alcatraz with the 316 survivors thanks to Ilana telling Locke about the pilot and the woman who jumped in the boat and took off after the crash.  Obviously Ben is on Alcatraz too along with Locke.  The question this raises is did all of the Oceanic 6 vanish off the plane (like Kate, Jack and Hurley), or did some of them vanish while the rest (Lupidis, Ben, Sun) simply rode out the plane crash?  And depending on the answer to that question, what is the significance of some people vanishing and others not vanishing?  And where the heck is Sayid?  He didn’t seem to be among the 316 survivors or their injured, but Ilana didn’t mention anything about her prisoner mysteriously vanishing right before her eyes.  Weird.

[Katie Kat]

This episode just made me kind of more confused (if that's possible).  I, too, think it felt rushed and filled with a lot of "forced" scenes to explain things.  I was really shocked that Abbadon was killed (don't know why, I knew he was on another show).  I found the "Christ" parallel with Locke to be a bit overdone though.  I mean honestly, Ben KNEELING before him?  And wasn't it three days after Locke died until he showed up on the Island alive?  "On the third day he rose again..."

Anyway, I KNEW as soon as Ben heard Locke say Jin was alive that he was going to kill him.  He just got that look in his eye.  I'm not sure he was going to kill Locke until then (not sure).  It just looked like the information that Jin was alive and that Locke knew Mrs. Hawking made him kill Locke.  And even though I knew Locke was going to be resurrected, that scene was SO hard to watch!

I'm a little disappointed in some aspects of the show.  I know they can't control what actors come and go from the show, but I really feel like they let us down on the Walt thing.  He was set up to be SOOOOOO important and now he's just gone?  Also, there are so many unanswered loose ends that were made out to be uber-important and now they have just disappeared off the radar screen -- like the vaccinations for "the sickness," the hatch map, the numbers, Juliet being marked, why Libby was in the crazy house with Hurley, the "list," the polar bear and bunnies, Marvin Candle/Wax/what-the-heck-ever, the 30 min. time delay when Faraday launched the probe, why some people travel in time and some in their minds, constants, the "magic box" Ben talked about, JACOB...  I know some of these will be explained (I guess), but it seems like there are too many threads going on!  

For now, I'm going to just sit back and watch and try not to delve too deep (except for reading what everyone writes out here).  Maybe that will inspire me to delve once again!  

[Keebah]

Katie Kat,

I'm right there with you when it comes to dead plot lines.  If that's the last we see of Walt, I may stop watching after this season.  I for one felt that his and Aaron's storylines where the most interesting and had been established as the big payoff for watching the show.  Now it seems as if they've both been dumped.  The only hope I have for Walt is the Lost: Missing Pieces project.  You might recall the episode called Room 23, which focused on Walt during his stay with the Others and the birds that kept dying outside his room.  Given that the Missing Pieces were done fairly recently, my hope is that Room 23 is an assurance that Walt still plays a part in the show.  But after last night, I just don't know if I can hold out hope any longer.

And don't even get me started on the numbers.  If the alternate reality game from the summer after Season 3 is all we're going to get as an explanation for the numbers, I will swear off Lost for all time.  I personally hate it when major plot points are dealt with outside the main medium, like in a tie-in internet show, a graphic novel, or a video game (see The Matrix).  It's not fair to the entire fan base.  I think they owe it to everyone to bring back the numbers and address them in the show properly.  Part of me thinks they will given what we know about the numbers and their significance to the end of the world, but these days with Lost there's just no telling.