Official "Whatever Happened, Happened" Instant Reaction Comments!

[brian]

Back to the Future.

[nicholasgakin]

Did (henchman Other whose name I don't know) say, "...without asking Ellie?"  I know I heard, "What if Charles finds out..."

Anyway, fantastic episode.  It looks like this season is finally going to get into the big stuff.  I've been waiting for The Island to come back to the show.

[Stef]

Did (henchman Other whose name I don't know) say, "...without asking Ellie?"  I know I heard, "What if Charles finds out..."

Yep, he namechecked both Charles and Ellie. So, whether they're on Island or back in the real world, they're still important people in 1977. Intriguing!

Even though this was a Kate episode - normally not my faves - I liked it! I thought there was a lot of great clearing of the air in those emotional scenes between the members of the Love Rhombus.

[flinchn]

I wonder what the main difference between posting on the blog and posting here is?  Just so its easier to reply?  Why provide 2 forums for discussion?  I also wonder if I should post my musings after the analysis since people rarely refer to them.  Oh well, its my way of working things out anyway.

Musings:

- Wow, this was one week I shouldn't have read the ep. preview - or at least read it a few days ago instead of today.  Talk about being right on target! (don't stop tho, seriously)

- I knew the big reveal would be that Charles was "in charge" at the end of the ep.  - the timeline is clear that he would be the Others' leader in the late 70's and that Ben has yet to fool him into leaving the island for good.

- I like that Alpert seems to answer only to Jacob, who I'm really starting to believe is a man, not an "island spirit"

- I like Kate a bit better than I used to after her episode.  She seems to be coming around to respecting Juliet and Sawyer's relationship, and she obviously grew as a person due to her friendship with Sawyer's ex.

- I wonder why Alpert insisted on clarifying what would happen to Ben and why he seemed to insist they agree to the terms of their decision?

- Welcome back Miles.  Good conversation with Hurley that lets the audiences' debates get talked out.

- Seems like CFL's crew got "sick" by being converted to others, ie. their innocence was lost.  Seems they reproduce by stealing children and indoctrinating them too.

- So being an Other means you are an evil person ready to murder at will?  Why would being devoted to Jacob essentially require this behavior, beyond protecting the island.

- Alpert is different than the other Others.  He doesn't age, he has his own mandate and he doesn't seem to be a murdering automaton.

- Considering the above, we must still worry about Juliet's real motivations, despite the fact that she's endeared herself to the audience.  Perhaps her "branding" reversed her conversion, but considering Alpert's warning about Ben this week - I wonder.

- I thought it would be funny if Kate simply lost Aaron in the supermarket and that's why she told Jack never to ask her about him again.

- I'm glad Radzinsky wasn't in this ep. since he already annoys me - missed Oldham though, I hope it wasn't a cameo.

- Next week looks like the episode I've been waiting years for.  Can't wait.  Wish it was 2 hours.

[Di]

There are interesting bits and pieces in this episode.  I thought it was great that Sawyer could say, to Kate, "I did it for her," meaning Juliet.  Kate also showed growth when she realized that she needed to give Aaron to his grandmother.  I don't think she's done with Sawyer, though, because he's looking a lot better than Jack.  Poor Jack--looks like he made the wrong decision.  Wonder what's it's going to take for him to grow up.

And when is Miles going to be useful to the story line?    

[tobiasly]

I can't believe no one has mentioned one of the most significant developments this episode... Jack is talking about what "the island wants to happen" and he was "brought back for a reason" but he doesn't know what that reason is yet! Jack has changed from a Man of Science to a Man of Faith! He is becoming Locke! C'mon people, this is HUGE! You can't tell me you saw THAT coming...

[Libby]

Finally we got an explanation as to why Kate did a 180 and wanted to go back to the island so badly.  I was so disappointed in her character for going back for either Jack or Sawyer because it made her so wishy-washy.  But her eagerness to find Claire showed us that maybe, just maybe, she's got a little depth to her. 

[Katie Kat]

I unabashedly LOVED this episode!  I'm glad I don't read Brian's previews tho!   

I thought this was a little love note from Damon and Carlton to the fans.  It was funny and intruiging and felt really good.  I know not a lot happened, but many of the ticky tacky things that have been hanging out there did get a nod and at least SOME explanation.  I loved it when Hurley and Miles were talking - I was laughing out loud!  And Miles's reaction to Hurley's last question (dumfounded "I don't know") was exactly how I've been feeling all season!

Anyway, I honestly thought that last week, when Kate told Sawyer she only knew why SHE came back, that she was talking about Aaron.  I still think he needs to come to the Island at some point, but in what capacity, I don't know.  Seeing Kate's struggle and her life off-Island did make me feel like she has some depth, and the scene where she says goodbye to Aaron had me crying like a baby!  (Maybe that's cuz I have a 3-year old though!)

I still am not sure I believe the "whatever happened, happened" thing.  I think it's got to be more likely that things CAN be changed, but eventually, through the work of people like Mrs. Hawking, it gets put back in line.  Er, maybe?

Desmond is still the key...

And I can't WAIT for next week!

[gmom229]

Did anyone else think Ellie might be Eloise Hawking?

[brian]

I wonder what the main difference between posting on the blog and posting here is?  Just so its easier to reply?  Why provide 2 forums for discussion?  I also wonder if I should post my musings after the analysis since people rarely refer to them. 

In a nutshell, I wish we could just have this forum for comments. It's easier to read, easier to reply to the comments of others, and a much better "community". Unfortunately, a lot of people just want the quick and dirty comments section on Blogspot - which in my opinion, sucks. So both exist - although this one is far superior, has better conversation, more likely to get a response from me, and gets most of my posts early.

[Jason]

What surprised me the most besides Alpert saying Ben wouldn't remember this at all is, how does Ben get back into the Dharma group?  We see him as an adult driving around with his dad right before the pruge happens.  Why in the world would Horace, Amy, Phil or any other dharmite trust him once he came back miraculously healed?

Also what's the worst part about this episode is that since Ben won't remember anything he won't remember his dad realizing how horribly he treated Ben and how concerned he was when he saw him dieing.  Even though his Dad showed he loved him he kills his dad later because he still hates his father because he won't remember his dad ever caring for him. 

It's all Jack's fault that Ben ended up the way he did.

Lastly, how in the world is Claire's mom going to take Aaron home with her?  She has no proof that he is related to her and no proof she is even allowed to have him. 

[Alec]

I was a little disappointed in the episode. (And in C&C's writing.) The whole thing about the magical life-saving procedure that will erase Ben's memory and drain his innocence... that's such a big cop-out. It absolves the writers of having to come up with a good reason for why Ben eventually doesn't remember Sayid et al (or why he does remember them but cleverly disguises his knowledge); it absolves the writers of giving us some sort of organic progression of Ben from innocent boy to evil bastard; and it means that Ben isn't special to the Island at all because of who he is, but only because Richard does something magical to him.

Also, the Sawyer-abandoned-Kate-by-jumping-out-of-the-helicopter theory was silly. My wife noted that it was like watching a soap opera when Kate and Cassidy were together; it struck me more like watching a bad high school movie.

And the scene where Kate loses Aaron for 15 seconds... what a throw-away scene! Nothing important happened, and I refuse to believe that that would have pushed her over the edge towards going back to the island.

Next week's episode has its work cut out for it, as far as I'm concerned.

[Greg]

Also what's the worst part about this episode is that since Ben won't remember anything he won't remember his dad realizing how horribly he treated Ben and how concerned he was when he saw him dieing.  Even though his Dad showed he loved him he kills his dad later because he still hates his father because he won't remember his dad ever caring for him. 

I was a little disappointed in the episode. (And in C&C's writing.)

I agree with you, Alec. And Jason's comments support our point to an extent, or at least point out fallacies... if Ben doesn't remember *anything* then he wouldn't remember that his Dad was *not* nice to him, either.  So that can't be a motivation for gassing him.

If whatever happened in the temple to resurrect him and turn him in to a hostile just brainwashes him to be against the DI, that's kind of lame.

[brian]

I just had a thought. Maybe we're taking Alpert's comment the wrong way.

"If I take him, he's not ever going to be the same again. What I mean is that he'll forget this ever happened and his innocence will be gone. He will always be one of us."

Maybe it doesn't mean that he's going to "lose his memory" - but simply that he is not going to remember what Alpert does to him - the events inside the Temple. So Alpert is saying, if I take him, he's going to change, but he isn't going to know why he's changed.

Compare it to what happened with CFL's crew with Smokey. They didn't forget who CFL was, they simply became "believers" in the Island, but didn't really know why.

This means that it isn't sloppy writing - it's sloppy analysis on our part!

[Greg]

Maybe it doesn't mean that he's going to "lose his memory" - but simply that he is not going to remember what Alpert does to him - the events inside the Temple. So Alpert is saying, if I take him, he's going to change, but he isn't going to know why he's changed.

Brian, I agree with you (as usual)... I took the "he's not going to remember" to be more of a won't remember "why" than a "what"... and this makes much more sense in the context of the story. 

But then that doesn't really explain why Ben doesn't recognize (or is it that he doesn't acknowledge) Sayid when he first re-encouters him in the hatch.