Lost and Gone For A While
July 30, 2010, 10:29:04 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Welcome! If you've stumbled in here by accident, you should check out Lost and Gone Forever to see why these forums exist.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
  Print  
Author Topic: Official "The Incident" Instant Reaction Comments!  (Read 3176 times)
brian
Lost... and Gone Forever
Administrator
Dharma
*****
Posts: 340



« on: May 14, 2009, 03:33:53 AM »

They're coming...
Logged
Greg
Other
***
Posts: 137



« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 03:45:22 AM »

But will we know who they are and "when" it is when they get there....
Logged
Greg
Other
***
Posts: 137



« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 03:52:42 AM »

I should probably think this through rather than just posting my question late at night... but here goes anyways.   
So what is the "loophole"?  Man #2 impersonates Locke in order to convince Ben to kill Jacob.  Where's the loophole in that?  Presumably Man #2 and Jacob can't kill each other.... but they can have someone else do it?  If so, why hasn't that happened before?  Was one of them impersonating dead Christian, too, and if so, to what purpose?
Maybe sleep and reflection will help, but for now, I agree with Brian's 4 word instant reaction.
Logged
tobiasly
Crash Landed
*
Posts: 17


« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 04:05:48 AM »

So what is the "loophole"?  Man #2 impersonates Locke in order to convince Ben to kill Jacob.  Where's the loophole in that?  Presumably Man #2 and Jacob can't kill each other.... but they can have someone else do it?  If so, why hasn't that happened before?

Maybe the person who kills Jacob has to want to do it. Think about how easily Jacob could have talked Ben out of killing him. Man #2/Locke didn't even try to stop Jacob from doing so, he just stood by while they talked. And when Ben asked Jacob "what about me?", all Jacob had to do was lie/manipulate Ben into thinking he was special. That would have been very easy to do, but instead he said "what about you?" and sealed his fate.

So there is something more to the loophole than simply not being able to kill each other. Jacob and Man #2 were both acting very complacent about what was about to happen, as if they both knew that Man #2 had already beaten Jacob.
Logged
tobiasly
Crash Landed
*
Posts: 17


« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 04:08:12 AM »

BTW, one thing that really struck me during the whole episode was how they made a point to emphasize how Jacob physically touched each of the future survivors in their past lives. He touched Kate on the nose, brushed Sawyer's hand as he handed him the pen, same with Jack as he handed him the candy bar, etc. Almost as if he were "marking" them for their future roles on the island.
Logged
euroraver
Crash Landed
*
Posts: 7


« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2009, 04:21:44 AM »

2 questions: Did Jacob fix young Ben by touching him as well a few episodes back when Richard took him to the Temple? If so, why did he not mention it to him?

Why Jacob and Ilana were speaking Russian? Huh And does it have any connections to that Russian guy (can't remember his name) a few seasons back?

And here's another thought: If Man #2 had planned to have Ben kill Jacob all along, it seems very strange that he only saw an opening to convince Ben when Ben told him Smokey/his dead daughter had instructed him to obey Locke no matter what. Suppose Ben did not tell him - how would he convince Ben then? Or were all those reasons he gave him be still enough?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 04:35:41 AM by euroraver » Logged
Jason
Other
***
Posts: 246


« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 05:24:16 AM »

This was a great episode.  Here is my take on these things.

Many years ago Jacob and the mystery man (Dr. Evil) were bound by certain rules.  What if Dr. Evil was banished not only from the Island but from this life.  Maybe he was bound into the Cabin and under the rule of Jacob or Jacob's people.  Yet somehow Ben got involved in his power when he was a boy and "seeing and talking" to his mom in the woods outside of Dharmaville.  This could be why Jacob never came to see him because he knew from the beginning that Ben had already been compromised.

Anyway maybe Ben was told that having Smokey do whatever he wanted was a perk of being the leader and Ben somehow released at least that portion of Dr. Evil from his cage and then overtime finally he broke free.  Now what if Jacob knowing that this would all happen at some point put people in place off the Island hundreds of years before to keep an eye on certain people and places.  Their sole job is to bring proof back to the Island to discredit Dr. Evil when he tries to regain control.

So as things go Dr. Evil, took over the body of Christian to manipulate Locke into doing what he wanted, then in when Locke left the Island he created a duplicate of Locke to fool everyone into thinking he had been resurrected.  This left a loose end in controlling Ben so he took him into the Temple and conveniently was out of site when Smokey/Dr. Evil appeared to Ben and commanded him to obey Locke in all things or be destroyed.  Which led us to where we are now.

The producers have Said LOST is about life, but what if they meant it is about LIFE not the day to day things we go through but instead the battle between Good and Evil.  Very literal of them.
Logged
Greg
Other
***
Posts: 137



« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2009, 12:08:16 PM »

Jason, very interesting theory.  I can see the gist of it being true (perhaps not all the details).  I certainly think a major theme of Lost is duality -- good/evil, black/white, faith/science, destiny/free will.

As I slept on it, I'm thinking the loophole relates to Ben (and Locke's body, for that matter) being able to return to the island even though he was "banished" by turning the FDW.
Logged
Keebah
Crash Landed
*
Posts: 28


« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 01:30:08 PM »

At the begining of the episode when Jacob is working the loom, we catch a glimpse of his feet in sandals.  Did anyone count his toes?  If so, did he have four or five?  I'm at work so I can't rewatch that part until later and it's really nagging at my mind this morning.
Logged
Katie Kat
Dharma
****
Posts: 410



« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2009, 02:14:32 PM »

WOW WOW and WOW!   Shocked

I really REALLY loved this episode - it's definitely up there in my top 3 (but I always seem to love the ones other people aren't so hot about, and not really like the ones other people rave about!  That's me - a rebel... ha!)

Anyway, I have a few thoughts:

1.  First of all, I cracked up when the credits were rolling at the beginning and it said "Part 1 written by Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse" and then "Part 2 written by Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof."  So nice of them to share top billing!   Smiley

2.  I have a wacky theory... Adam and Eve are.......................  Bernard and Rose!  I mean, they were all happy out in the jungle, content to never leave, and the rocks Adam and Even held were black and white, just like Bernard and Rose!  Okay, maybe a stretch, but who knows? 

3.  Guy #2 (whom I'm calling "Not Locke") has obviously been around for a long time with Jacob, but WHO are they?  I mean, are they spirits?  Real people?  Biblical character-types?  Why is there bad blood between them?

4.  Do we really know who is good or bad between Jacob and Not Locke?

5.  VINCENT!  Woot!

6.  How will Desmond fit into all of this (if at all)?  If everyone died, does he have to return to the Island to change it?  Or, conversely, if they all end up in LA in 2004, does he have to go back to change it?  Or is he just off the hook now?  And what about the other "puppeteers" like Mrs. Hawking and Widmore?  And WHAT ABOUT AARON? 

7.  I think Hurley is going to be a key player in all of this.  He's always been sort of the centering element.  And what's in the guitar case?

8.  How does all of this tie into Smokey, the Others, Richard, etc.?

9.  Why has Jacob been bringing people to the Island for so long?  As a game?  To toy with them?  In charge of the World and got bored?

10.  What book was Jacob reading when Locke fell out of the building behind him?

11.  Anyone else want to be Season 6 opens with Jack's eye?

Okay, more questions than answers, but intruiging nonetheless.  And I have to say, when the episode ended last night, I felt so SATIATED.  I know there are still a lot of things to be answered, but I feel like I can wait 8 months to find out.  In previous seasons, I was a WRECK after the last episode - feeling completely discombobulated and confused and angry that I had to wait so long for more answers.  Last night, I felt happy and fulfilled.  I honestly think the whole series could have ended at that point and I would have been okay with it.  Okay, not really OKAY with it, but "okay" with it. Tongue

  I LOVE THIS SHOW!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 02:18:07 PM by Katie Kat » Logged
JTorres
Crash Landed
*
Posts: 5


« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 02:14:57 PM »

Brian,

I'm surprised that you're so undecided about this episode.  I'm almost prepared to say that I think it was the best episode of LOST ever!  Got a couple theories about Jacob and Man #2 (who someone called Dr. Evil-I liked that so I'm stickin' to it).

There's been a lot of Science involved this season, but I feel like this episode had heavy Religious undertones.  Maybe it's just me, but by then end of the episode I was absolutely conviced that Jacob is the "God" character (he never ages, he can bring the dead back to life), and Dr. Evil is the "Satan" character.  In the Bible Satan just couldn't walk up to God and kill him, he had to deceive Judas into betraying Christ (God) which ultimately led to his death.  In the same way Dr. Evil can't just kill Jacob, so he deceives Ben into betraying Jacob which ultimately leads to his death!

Another thing that I found really important about the opening scene was that Dr. Evil points out that it was Jacob who brought that boat full of people (Black Rock?) to the Island.  I got the impression he's been doing this maybe since the beginning of time (and has done it again with our 815ers).  But Dr. Evil says that it always ends the same way: with the people fighting and killing eachother.  Presumably Jacob starts over with a new group after that.  The really compelling question to me here is: what is Jacob hoping to accomplish by hand-picking groups of people and bringing them to the Island?  A Utopia society?

If Jacob is a God character then I'm not convinced he's dead.  And if that's the case then the real "battle for the Island" is between him and Dr. Evil.  Every other character is just lesser versions or pawns of these two ultimate good/evil representatives. 

That's all I got (amazing that's what kept me up all night!).  Still think this was a "show changing" episode.  The ramifications of this episode boggle the mind!!!  Is it 2010 yet?   Embarrassed

Jessica
Logged
Katie Kat
Dharma
****
Posts: 410



« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 02:30:13 PM »

Jessica:

That's exactly the idea I had in my head at the end about Jacob and Not Locke  Wink (Dr. Evil sounds too Austin Powers to me!) being God and Satan!  I was going to look up the Biblical references to Jacob to see if he was involved in anything like that.   I, too, am not convinced Jacob is dead, nor that he is the "good" guy for sure.

Keebah:

Here's a link to a screencap of Jacob's foot.  In it I only see 4 toes, but it's a little obscured (probably on purpose), so I can't be sure!
http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/dbe55c00cdf16b69fe31e4e6a61a88fc
They also show it here: http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/2ab3ab7ed42bf5dd5c49264f1fd62eef , but again, it's obscured (DAMN YOU DARLTON!   Grin)

 
Logged
Jabbadoo
Dharma
****
Posts: 299



« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 03:05:39 PM »

Loved the interaction of Jacob and Hurley. Wasn't the cab driver the guy that is with Iliana on the plane? We've seen him before but I didn't catch it that quickly.

What's in the guitar case!!!

2010 sounds far away. Sad

Here's hoping that I've finally moved away from VT by the time Lost starts again!
Logged
xyourmomx
Crash Landed
*
Posts: 26


« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2009, 03:41:20 PM »

I'm feeling that Not Locke/Man #2/Dr. Evil is Smokey

When Ben went to summon Smokey and said 'I'll be outside'  Not Locke was there, but Smokey never came...

So then they go to the temple and Ben falls into a spot, and Not Locke says he'll go get rope, meanwhile Smokey suddenly appears and tells him to follow Locke unquestionably.  and then disappears, and then Not Locke shows back up.  Smokey and Not Locke haven't occupied the same spot together

Smokey is the security system for the island.  Jacob is in charge of the island.  Smokey wants to be free.

I mean really, we've seen Smokey assume the shapes of people we know, and it's obvious he scans and picks up memories.  Not hard for him to have done that to Locke in order to impersonate him.  \\

And a security system is designed to keep things out.  Yet here's Jacob constantly bringing people to the island.  Wouldn't that piss off a security system that was sentient?

And yeah, "They're coming" prolly refers to the return of the 70's people.  Although, Alpert was no where near the Swan, so how he "watched them die"  I dunno.

And I guess we got a little more evidence that Alpert is from the Black Rock.  When Illana used his birth name, it was more of a traditional spanish (IE Spain) name.  Jacob prolly made him eternal for one of two reasons...  as a blessing, or as a curse.  Either way, Jacob left him alive to help council the people of the island in hopes of achieving the so-called "progress" he wanted.

I had more thoughts running, but that's it for now... I know, i'm crazy.
Logged
Keebah
Crash Landed
*
Posts: 28


« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2009, 03:54:26 PM »

I've been typing up my thoughts since last night, and based on posts made thus far, it seems I share a lot of the same ideas as everyone else.  Always good know I'm not totally in left field.

And if it comes down to a vote, I vote for Dr. Evil as the Lost and Gone for a While official name for Man #2.  Cheesy

Thoughts:

• Jacob and Dr. Evil – was that a great opener or what?  Do we think the ship they were observing off shore was the Black Rock?  If so, does that put us any closer to placing Richard “Ricardos” Alpert on board as either its captain or a member of its crew?

• Season 5 is (allegedly) supposed to mirror Season 2.  If that’s the case, Ben in Season 5 is Locke in Season 2.  What I mean is, at the end of Season 2, Locke made a choice and destroyed the computer in the Swan Hatch.  He thought he was doing the right thing, but in fact he almost caused the second incident.  It forced Desmond to activate the failsafe and blow the Swan Hatch to smithereens.  In Season 5, Ben was brought to Jacob and had to make a choice: kill him or walk away.  He chose to kill Jacob thinking it was the right thing to do.  In essence, he broke the computer.  The question now is what are the repercussions of Ben’s actions?  Will the giant foot blow up transferring power to Ben so that he can see when Richard is going to die a la Desmond and Charlie?  Probably not.  My guess is Ben has now disrupted the equilibrium between Jacob and Dr. Evil by tipping it in Dr. Evil’s favor.  Perhaps this unleashed the war that Charles has been talking about.  But a war for what?  The Island?  Humanity’s survival?  Jacob’s beachside condo?

• I agree with what some people have been saying about Dr. Evil being Christian Sheppard.  Since dead is dead, Christian died in Australia and Dr. Evil simply took on his appearance after the crash of 815.  I’ll take it one step further and state the obvious: Dr. Evil can somehow impersonate other people.  Hmmm.  Who else can do this?  That’s right: Smokey!!!  I think Dr. Evil is the smoke monster.  I imagine there are some inconsistencies, but it seems to make sense in light of recent and not-so-recent events:
     o When Ben visited Smokey in the cave beneath the temple, Evil Locke conveniently disappeared in search of rope so that Ben could have some quite time with Smokey and Alex.  I look back on this moment now as though it were lifted from a Superman comic.  Clark Kent conveniently disappears at the very moment Superman is needed, but everyone knows Clark and Superman are the same person.  At the cavern under the temple, Clark and Superman are represented by Evil Locke and the smoke monster…only they’re bad guys.  As Locke, Dr. Evil was able to get Ben into the cave.  As Smokey/Alex, he was able to convince Ben to do whatever Locke wanted him to do.  All Dr. Evil had to do then was become Evil Locke again and march Ben off to the statue.
     o In previous seasons, Ben is perceived as being able to call upon Smokey for help.  At least, that’s how it appeared.  It makes more sense that Smokey was simply making himself available to Ben while he was in fact manipulating Ben the whole time.  He was building Ben up, making him feel empowered and in touch with the island.  Kind of changes the way I look at Alex’s death in Season 4 and the way Smokey attacked the mercenaries.
     o Locke had his face-to-face with Smokey in Season 1, an event that seemed to set Locke on the path to finding his destiny on the island.  Perhaps that was simply Dr. Evil (in the form of Smokey) setting Locke along the path to being part of his loophole plan. 
     o How might this change the way we understand Mr. Echo’s death?  Did Smokey/Dr. Evil kill Mr. Echo because of Mr. Echo’s influence on John Locke?  Was Mr. Echo dangerously close to detouring John from his path along the loophole plan?  I’ll have to rewatch the events of Season 2 and 3 concerning Mr. Echo, but I bet his life on the island will take on a new level of significance after last night’s finale.
     o Concerning other people Smokey has killed: what about Danielle’s friends?  What about the pilot of Flight 815 who wasn’t supposed to be flying the plane?

• The Cabin – so the cabin was in fact some sort of holding cell and the ash around it was acting as a kind of restraint or seal.  I’m not sure I fully understand who was in the cabin before Season 5.  I want to think it was Dr. Evil, but Ilana’s actions make me think that at least she thought Jacob was living there.  Here’s why:  Ilana and Bram brought John Locke’s body to the cabin before taking it anywhere else.  They brought it there as Bram explained to Frank because they had to show it to someone.  When Frank asked why, Bram responded, “So we can show him what he’s up against.”  It would make more sense in my mind that they would want to show John’s corpse to Jacob so that Jacob knows his latest leader has been killed by Dr. Evil (if John was in fact supposed to be the latest leader).  Therefore, it seems they thought Jacob was in the cabin all along.  When Ilana says to Bram that the person they’re looking for isn’t inside, she follows up with that nugget comment of “Someone else has been using it.”  I can only assume that Dr. Evil was that person.  Clearly, I’m not completely confident with my understanding of the cabin yet, so I’ll wait for Brian’s analysis and everyone else’s comments before settling on this issue.

• Bernard & Rose – I don’t know about the rest of you, but I love the way the writers addressed Bernard and Rose.  “We’re retired.”  Love it!  This gets me thinking that if for some strange reason Bernard and Rose, with their inner hippyness in full effect, are now exempt from any more time traveling and won’t jump with the other survivors at the beginning of Season 6, that they’re now set up to be Adam and Eve (the skeletons at the cave from Season 1). 

• Kate, Juliet & Sun – overall, I was very disappointed with the way these characters were treated in the finale.  And with Sun in particular, her development this season was virtually non existent.  But the whole back and forth mind changing by Kate and Juliet over whether to help Jack was just ridiculous.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!